Iraq

Hey, I noticed we all seem to be talking about politics and issues a little bit, and I'm curious as to what y'all's opinion is on the war in Iraq.

Not a fan.

I'm for it. It's my personal opinion that if we hadn't fought it on their land, we'd eventually be fighting it on ours. I think it was the right move, especially after 9/11. If we had failed to act, we would be sacrificing our freedom. Our enemies wouldn't be hesitant to attack us again, and who knows what could have happened. I think we need to be there. Freedom comes with a price, and it's worth fighting for.

Well I agree we should have done something about it, but war is pushing it waaaaay to far.

Agreed, it was a good move and we probably should have gone there, but it's running a bit long. It keeps looking more and more like Vietnam. I don't understand why we're there anymore. It's time to pull away in my opinion.

Governments take a long time to establish. That's what they're currently trying to do. If they pull out now, then Iran would overrun Iraq, and create a stronghold there. That's why they're still over seas.

How long will this take then? Will our soldiers be back by the time the Iraqi government's bi-centinniel happens?

The government hasn't been established yet. That's what they're working toward. Even once that happens, they need some help getting on their feet before we can leave. They need to be assured they won't be taken over as soon as we leave. They need to know how to defend themselves. All of that could take years. It took a long time to remove and capture Saddam, and it will take a long time-possibly years-to build their government.

What exactly does this all have to do with our original reason for going? Saddam needs to be removed, yes. But isn't this expending a bit of our own army? Stretching them a bit.

Sorry Sara, I agree with Esther on this one. The one think I don't want is to have our country fighting a war, when I have my kids.

Our reason for going to Iraq wasn't just to remove Saddam, but to establish Iraqi independence. We went for both reasons. Both were our goals, and now that the one has been reached, they're working toward the other one. We don't know what it means anymore to have to fight for something we believe in, because we're so comfortable, and we think we can't be touched because we're America, but that's not true. We've fallen asleep. I think that's why so many are opposed to the war, because they just want things to go back to normal. They don't understand how much time and effort it takes to do what they're doing, or really why they're doing it.

I don't know. I may just have some of the hippies genes my mom inhereted from her parents. But I just don't like violence for the sake of revenge. Which to me seems like this is what it started out like then turned into a: "Oops we forgot to police this part of the world thing".

We aren't even fighting for America anymore. My heart breaks for the soldiers, and their families. All the suffering going on that's triggered by this war. And lots because their military job won't let them do otherwise. And they're always talking about how they need even MORE volunteers. It's not like their chances of survival out there are increasing or anything. Yes, America is 'too comfortable'. But no one with military in their family is comfortable anymore.

Ok my thoughts are this (1) They blew our stuff up we should blow some of their stuff up like a mosque or something. (2) It has gone on long enough we got Saddam now lets leave, let them kill each other.

That's pretty cold and vengeful. How 'bout let's NOT bomb anything cause that would be diplomatic disaster and morally wrong for the motives you're thinking. Yes, let's leave Iraq before it turns into another Vietnam.

It is already another Vietnam

We've been lucky so far, but how far will luck take us?

Into a crap hole!

You guys seriously don't understand.

Ghostface! At The Disco wrote:I don't know. I may just have some of the hippies genes my mom inhereted from her parents. But I just don't like violence for the sake of revenge. Which to me seems like this is what it started out like then turned into a: "Oops we forgot to police this part of the world thing".

It's not a "revenge" thing. To do nothing after something like 9/11 isn't the "diplomatic approach," it's the STUPID approach. We're there because of justice, not revenge. If I were you I would research what we're talking about instead of basing your beliefs on the opinions of people around you.

The thing is, it's really hard to call what choice to make. If we pull out now, Iran could invade or the terrorists in that area could gain a foot hold again and we'd be fighting again. But if we stay and do establish Iraqi independence, who's to say that the terrorists wouldn't gain a foothold again? Or that Iraq would turn on us at some point?
My other question is, why Iraq? Yes, Iraq deserves to be free and not under the control of a dictator. America is doing something 'good'. But Iraq isn't the only country under dictatorial rule. Are we going to free them too? Will there be a draft involved? What IS the right course to take? Those of us in the present can't really tell. No, America's progress won't necessarily lead us into a 'craphole', but this IS similar to Vietnam.
Starscream is right in the fact the easiest solution would be to pull out and bomb Iraq, but there's too much collateral damage at stake. Not only would you be bombing the 'bad guys' but men, women, children, and infants. Of course, fighting the 'bad guys' is costing American lives and in essence American families (parents, wives, children). So, we come to an even harder decision in which it's hard to see what the right course of action is. Stay in or pull out?

You make a better argument here. I would like to list casualties from the Iraq war (so far) and from the Vietnam war, and then you can tell me if it's another Vietnam or not.

Iraq-
April of 04 there were 135 casualties.
The number of casualties this month: 34
In the five years that our troops have been stationed in Iraq, there have been a total of 3878 deaths.

Vietnam-
Estimated at 350,000 US casualties.
Estimated Vietnamese deaths was between 1 and 2 million.

As you can see, there's a vast difference between loss of life in these two wars. To be in Iraq for almost six years, and only have 3878 deaths, is nothing short of a miracle. Yes it is a lot of lives, but when you look at September 11th, in ONE attack, there were 2,974 civilian deaths. Compare that to six years of fighting back, and know that if we pull out, that could happen countless more times. As I said before, it was either here or there. Fighting over there keeps our people safe. As far as Iraq turning on us, there's no foundation for that claim. Sure it's possible, but not probable. Why would they, especially after what America has done. They wouldn't have the means or the resources to stage an attack.

I said it earlier, we've been lucky. But when will our luck run out? There are military people in my own family saying the longer we stay the longer our chances of having few casualties decrease. Yes, we do save our own people by not fighting on our soil, but we don't save Iraq's people. Atleast on our soil maybe the people of the US can agree we're fighting for our own soil. Beefing up security around America would be excellent. Military people knew for years we didn't have decent security. But like I said, it's HARD to see what to do.

What do you mean we don't save Iraq's people?

TheFairMaiden wrote:The government hasn't been established yet. That's what they're working toward. Even once that happens, they need some help getting on their feet before we can leave. They need to be assured they won't be taken over as soon as we leave. They need to know how to defend themselves. All of that could take years. It took a long time to remove and capture Saddam, and it will take a long time-possibly years-to build their government.

Acuatlly Their Government is established. And screw it if Iran overruns them.